Thursday, December 30, 2004
milk
water
turkey sandwich
stuffing
gravy
squash
sweet potato
peppermint tea
granola
corn bread
blue raspberry Jolly Rancher
Indeed, pregnant again.
Friday, December 24, 2004
Off to Buffalo, NY until Jan. 1. Merry Christmas!
Thursday, December 23, 2004
It's -9 degrees right now. I slept last night with a 20-lb blanket of cats - they're cold, too. And, people are getting mean. I had to go to Byerly's to get lime sherbet, juice, and ginger ale for Christmas Eve punch, and people are driving aggressively, parking even more aggressively, and shoving and pushing around the grocery store. Merry Christmas to you, too, everyone! I only need vitamins today, so that's just one stop to a non-holiday-shopping location.
I've appreciated the dialogue on gender - in the church broadly, emergent, and our local churches. Funny, gender is the only issue I write about that results in anonymous comments and confidential e-mails sent to my private e-mail box. There are a lot of strong thoughts and feelings on the issue, and unfortunately, a lot of fear around being punished for speaking up. Gender inequality is such an entrenched issue, and it will be around for a long time. My hope is that men and women can learn together to speak honestly about our experiences, without defensiveness or retribution (and not just by men - women can also have alot at stake in maintaining the status quo and punishing 'instigators'). I've seen such healthy dialouge in settings like classrooms, and I believe it could happen in churches, in which people come to trust each other over time and become increasingly honest.
My life today?
stop blogging and eat breakfast
take a morning nap
organize 2004 bills and tax papers
get tires rotated
buy vitamins
go to counselor
perhaps an afternoon nap
clean litterbox
What are you up to today?
3 Comments:
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Nothing- or as much nothing as I feel like doing. Vacation is nice.
I might do a little laundry, probably take the dog to the park (hurricanes are awful, but 70 degrees, shorts, and a t-shirt at Christmas cover a multitude of weather sins), maybe wrap some presents.
I read your review of McLaren, and the responses that are on the blog. To be honest, I have to say that I really don't have much empathy for what I read. I don't doubt the sincerity of the voices that feel...repressed? But it's something that, as far as I know, I haven't run into.
Can you tell me how a passage like 1 Timothy 2:12 fits into this? I'm not trying to stir anything up; I really don't understand how this fits in with the concerns I've read. -
Ben,
I don't think that we as women can expect that you have "run into" the problem that many of us have dealt with, either outrightly or just in small doses that begin to take their toll on our confidence as equals. And that's okay. But, I think that continued dialogue regarding this issue is key to helping men be able, as much as they can, to understand our circumstance.
I read a book last year that you might find interesting by William J. Webb. It is called "Slaves, Women and Homosexuals: Exploring the Hermeneutics of Cultural Analysis". Webb discusses what he calls the "redemptive spirit" of the Bible, relative to the treatment of the fringe groups mentioned in the title. I found it to be a very helpful guide in reading the Bible as it relates to some very controversial topics.
--Laura B.By
, at 1:24 PM
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Day is almost done.. my fiancee's teenage nieces and nephew are on their way here, and our little condo shall be crowded.
I have shopped for Xmas dinner, gone out for ahi tuna steaks with a buddy of mine from the All Saints Vestry, and I have spent 40 miserable minutes on the stairclimber.
Now, time to make tomorrow morning's coffee and sing a little quiet song to Matilde the chinchilla.
Jenell, Merry Christmas!
Monday, December 20, 2004
Zondervan has asked me to blog-review two emergent books. I know better than to be flattered – I’ve never even been to an emergent conference, and my blog has sucked for two months. It’s probably just Opal’s compelling antics that stick in people’s minds. One of the books is Brian McLaren’s “A Generous Orthodoxy.” McLaren wonders whether some read his book “looking for dirt so you can write a hostile review” (17). I don’t intend to be hostile, but some of what I say is critical. Brian is famous, and I said “hi” to him once at Chipotle in Minneapolis, so that practically makes me famous. I’m not going to burn that bridge.
Cognizant of the critical missives launched in cyberspace toward emergent and the suggestions emergent leaders have made about such criticisms, I e-mailed this review to Brian last week (at Doug's suggestion). I hoped he would write a response, and we could spark a good dialogue about gender in the church. His brief response was "to say thanks and I'll try to learn lasting lessons from what you've written." While my attempt at a fuller dialogue didn't work, I at least won't surprise him with a review coming out of nowhere.
First off, I’m slicing through his book with my own agenda, looking at matters of gender, though the book is not about gender (there is a wonderful, but brief discussion of God and gender pronouns on 74-75, but that’s about it). This is a bit like criticizing an author for what they didn’t do (Can you believe this idiot didn’t write anything about pet care or dermatology?), but not entirely. McLaren claims to be “listening to a wider variety of older and new voices than most people do” (22), and then articulating his broad, generous vision of Christianity. I’m focusing on the range of women’s voices he’s listened to. This can easily become reductionistic – he’s read men from diverse time periods, cultures, and Christian traditions, and I don’t intend to imply that all men are saying the same things. Nonetheless, the gender issues are important. I know the emergent movement values women’s leadership, yet women seem to complain about the same types of (often unintentional) exclusionary practices they’ve experienced in non-emergent settings. Perceiving the reasons behind women’s secondary status in the church is a challenge, and we can’t reach healthy solutions without understanding the problems.
I noticed four ways in which women are used (and not used) in McLaren’s book. First, the citing of women as intellectual authorities. I most appreciated McLaren’s use of Diana Butler Bass. He refers to her as “my friend” (a warm way he refers to many authors), and cites her numerous times. He also cites Nancey Murphy, Karen Armstrong, Melanie Griffin, Flannery O’Connor, and Irshad Manji as intellectual authorities in and of themselves. Why, however, characterize Manji’s writing as “sparkling” and Murphy’s as “helpful,” while men’s writings are more often called “important,” “profound” or “my favorite”?
Unfortunately, most intellectual content in the book comes from males. The book’s foreword and back blurbs are by men (a publisher’s decision, but authors can push). While around 6 women are cited bibliographically or in stories in which McLaren learned something important, cited males include Chesterton, NT Wright, Leonard Sweet, Robert Webber, Steve Sjogren, Hans Frei, Richard Foster, Michael Polanyi, Joel Green and Mark Baker, Dallas Willard, Jay Tolson, Dave Andrews, Henri Nouwen, Romano Guardini, Gabriel Marcel, Thomas Merton, Dan Schmidt, John Yoder, Walker Percy, Philip Yancey, Miroslav Volf, Vincent Donovan, Darrell Guder, David Bosch, Lesslie Newbigin, Philip Gulley, James Mulholland, William Crocket, Randolph Klassen, Samir Vesna, Mark Oestreicher, Dean Kelley, Philip Jenkins, John Franke, Stanley Grenz, Walter Bruegemann, Hans Urs von Balthasar, CS Lewis, Kyriacos Markides, Josef Pieper, Richard Mouw, Ken Wilber, William James McClendon, Michael King, Wendell Berry, Doug Pagitt, Thomas McConnell, F. Roy Coad, Keit Matthews, Rich Bueller, Joshua Massey, Phil Parshall, and Stephen Freed.
The question for us is, how can we make ourselves students of women (and of men, and of all cultures and colors)? You can only be formed by that which you’re exposed to, and you can only cite or write about who you read and hear. Which books are in our libraries, who is on our blogroll (so many men’s blogs link almost exclusively to other men!), who preaches, innovates, and makes decisions in our churches? Who feels entitled to express their opinions publically, or to speak in public?
A second issue is the tendency to refer to women in terms of their relationships to men. McLaren’s grandmother and mother are favorably mentioned as teachers of children, but both remain unnamed, while his grandfathers are referred to as Robert McLaren and Stephen Smith. From the Bible, he mentions “mother Mary and Aunt Elizabeth.” Too often in the church, men are more often referred to in terms of their ideas, accomplishments, or publications, while women are more often valued for their relational and nurturing abilities. McLaren’s book doesn’t go this direction nearly as strongly as it could have.
A question for us in church practice is, do we value women mostly for their family embeddedness, or for their giftedness? Are women’s contributions concentrated in family and children’s ministry, food, hospitality, visitation, and the like? Are women referred to by their own names, or as the mother or wife of someone? How are we encouraging women to find their own voices and gifts, and to speak for themselves? Are men encouraged to form healthy relationships, nurture, and contribute to the ‘service’ ministries of the church?
The third area is including women when considering historical contributions. In discussion of history, church history, and lists of names associated with religious movements, the only woman I found in McLaren’s book was Tammy Faye Baker (mentioned as a pair with Jim). Other included George Whitefield, Wesley brothers, Charles Fuller, Bill Bright and James Kennedy, Pat Robertson, Larry Nrman, Rick Warren, Bill Hybels, Ulrich Zwingli, Luther, Martin Bucer, John Calvin, Copernicus, Galileo, Calvin, Pascal, Newton, Descartes, Hume, Handel, Mozart, Mohter Theresa, Billy Graham, Francis Schaeffer, RC Sproul, Ravi Zacharias, Os Guiness, JI Packer, Hneri VIII, Howard Snyder, Larry Crabb, St. Francis, Incan king, Pizarro, Atahulpa, Hernando, Pedro, MLK, Jr., Kierkegaard, Aquinas, and Bach. Pop culture references included only men, such as Jim Carrey, Carl Sagan, Beatles, Bob Dylan, Radiohead, and Garrisson Keillor. Of course, better no women are mentioned than male authors using women as symbols of promiscuity and cultural decline (Brittany, Paris, etc.)! From Scripture, McLaren thoughtfully fills out a long list including men and women, and Jews and Gentiles. Bible people include Paul, Bartimaeus, Zaccheus, woman near a well, leper, Roman centurion, Syrophenecian woman, Abraham, and Moses.
This issue isn’t difficult to repair. For example, the chapter titled, “Why I Am Methodist” could easily have included women circuit riders and preachers such as Phoebe Palmer. These women were integral to the movement – it’s not a politically correct ‘add-on’ to include them. Biblical women who showed significant leadership and whose names are recorded include Shiphrah and Pua, Miriam, Sarah, Naomi, and others. The deeper question is, Who do we listen to? Who writes our histories, and do we consume them uncritically? And, in terms of personal bias, do we see women as decorative add-ons in pop culture, scripture, or history, or do we see and value their substantive contributions?
I was most disappointed in my fourth area, references to mentors and teachers. McLaren writes fondly about learning from friends and mentors, but the only mentors I noticed were men: Chesterton, Stan Grenz, Rector Renny Scott, and Dave. I wished he had referred to a few women as his intellectual, professional, or personal teachers.
For me, a major transition in my racial reconciliation journey was joining a black church. I had served black people as a minister for several years, and then chose to submit myself to black religious authority by joining a black church (Cheryl Sanders was pastor, so I got to work on my church gender issues as well). Experiencing black religion as a learner and a member was entirely different than helping black people as their superior and rescuer. The same is true for women. We don’t only need to be mentored, helped along, and noticed by men. Many women are of high intellect, education, and experience, and need simply to be found and learned from.
My conclusion? McLaren’s book is an interesting read about its actual subject – generous orthodoxy. Analysis of his footnotes and citations yields important questions for all of us in the church, not only the church emergent, and I’m glad his book raises the questions. What do you think of all this?
30 Comments:
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"I wished he had referred to a few women as his intellectual, professional, or personal teachers."
Do you want him to lie or tell the truth? Should he refer to women that way even if they weren't? Or do you mean to say, "I wish a few women had been his intellectual, professional, or personal teachers"? If few women are among his mentors, that's not necessarily anybody's fault, women, men, or McLaren's. That's just the way things turned out for him.
--Ed CookBy
, at 11:34 AM
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Great post! Long, but great! :)
I think it is nice thatt some of the evangelcal church is emerging from its box. I made this comment on a another blog:
This is one of the issues that I mentioned about the Emergent Conference in SD this year. Where are the woman leaders? Pastors? Priests? I am struck that a HUGE part of Christ's church still does not include woman pastors.
If approximately 65% of those attending church are women, then it would only seem that a woman can be a voice. If a bunch of white dudes are "controlling" the conversation then what can we expect? I realize that many "denominations" in the Body of Christ are ordaining women etc. (Episcopal & others)
Someone mentioned on another blog about the emergent church organizing. I thought to myself, how dangerous. Who gets to decide who is in and who is out? Who gets to decide what "voices" are around the table? Whose voices? If WE CONTROL who is at the "table" we will never be the church. Sounds like a very modern notion.
I love the emergent conversation and think it is a work of the Spirit, but we need to let the Spirit work and stay out of God's way. One way we stay out of God's way is to be inclusive of "those" not like us. A great place to start is by asking the question, "Who is not here?"
Rick -
Interesting. I find myself coming back to this question: "Are women referred to by their own names, or as the mother or wife of someone?" I think that's often what happens. I just wonder where that leaves those of use who are displaced and single, with no family ties to identify or label us? Perhaps that's why the single women I know have such difficulty in more traditional churches (and why I find Solomon's Porch quite welcoming)?
Most of my in-the-flesh mentors have been women. I'm not sure that there's anything wrong with that; it involves a level of intimacy and closeness that I don't feel comfortable developing with most men. Of course, I balance it out by reading male authors.
- RachelBy
, at 2:01 PM
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Did you read the book? Or just the index? I can't figure out from your review what McLaren thinks about anything.
By
, at 2:35 PM
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As a man who is referred to as "Carla's husband," I have nothing to say. But under my pseudonym, Maris Nepal, let me just say that having been taught by Nancey Murphy, I can go on record and say that she is the smartest, most brilliant professor that I've ever learned from. I'm embarrassed around this woman; she makes me quake in my boots. Carla will want me to say too that she got the highest grade in Nancey's ethics class.
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This is a fantastic review, Jenell - insightful and something that many Christians need to hear. Sometimes it's not about what's there - it's about what isn't.
Thanks. -
Ed, I didn't write that McLaren had no woman mentors b/c I don't know that - maybe he just didn't mention them. But the mentors and influencers in our lives don't 'just happen' - most of my mentors 'just happen' to be men, in large part b/c I have feared women's disapproval and have avoided mentoring opportunities. Not until my mid-20s did I begin seeking out women as mentors and personal influencers. The preponderance of (wonderful) male mentors in my life was in large part due to my choices.
And to anonymous (why be anonymous?!), yes, this is a review of the reference material in the book. I did read the text, but read the references more closely. There are numerous other good reviews and discussions of the text (see www.agenerousorthodoxy.blogspot.com). -
thanks, jenell, for saying these things. it's hard to explain why it matters or what it says when women are absent in this particular way. i don't think we quite get it yet, but this helps.
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Jenell,
This isn't entirely related, but it is similar enough that I need to write a "purge comment"--not directed at you, but at the boob I heard on the radio last night. Driving home alone, I turned on Christian radio to hear a segment on "Evangelical Feminism and the Truth of God". The "professor" (I can't remember where he was from) just wrote a book about how evangelical feminism (or "egalitarianism" as he referred to it) is not of God and it is just one more example of how the church is succumbing to the culture. They talked about headship, male leadership, authority, etc...and for whatever reason, as my blood was boiling, I was thinking to myself, "I wonder what Jenell Paris would say about this?!"
WHY is the message still out there that women are only to be "cherished and nurtured" (according to this broadcast) and that men are supposed to be the only ones leading? Is it really and truly "unbiblical" for a woman to be in a position of leadership and authority within a church? What if I don't want to be cherished and nurtured, but I want to lead in a particular area? How could the God who created me in His image tell me that I must remain silent?
Anyway, these are questions I wanted to scream out the window as I subjected myself to what I really believe is a bunch of crap.
I appreciated your blog today and I look forward to further postings about this subject.
Also, Merry Christmas! -
Jenell,
This is a very good post. One of the most frustrating things I have experienced is being in a relevantish-emergenty church that had nothing to offer women in the way of true leadership opportunity. I was actually told to tailor the way I conduct myself around my husband so that other males would respect him and feel comfortable around me. In no uncertain terms they wanted there to be a visible power distance in our relationship. It felt just exactly the opposite of emergent and was singularly painful for me. I remember the pastor saying (paraphrase) " I know you feel called to [lead] but it just cannot be so, is not meant to be so, or I risk upsetting my male membership." He was only 34 years old. You aren't making too much of this. I really fear a conservative, evangelical church that learns to parade as emergent and progressive. The damage that can do . . .
EricaBy
, at 9:06 PM
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Jenell - Wow, you have articulated so much of what I have been feeling, but so much clearer than I have been able to express it. Thank you for posting this review - and for addressing what so many people still do not understand or know. Who is not heard from? And are we being mentored in a whole way - both male and female voices? A pastor I once knew told me, off the record, that he believes the fuss about genders is about power. I believe that to be true, and until we understand the undercurrents we will not be able to all swim together. I'm looking to swim together. Thanks for bringing this into the Light. Anj
By
, at 8:37 AM
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thanks for this review - i think it's a challenge that brian is way open to: finding and listening to female mentors. but i think it's also a challenge for women to be more vocal and trendsetting in this new emerging thing, you know?
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Thank you for this posting--a friend pointed it out to me and I thought I'd jump in with a response.
I'm quite confident that my busy friend Brian is honestly pursuing the issues of leadership by women in emergent circles! Yours is a thoughtful and generous review that should keep the conversation going.
Brian and I became friends through our mutual editor at Jossey-Bass Publishers in San Francisco (who is an amazingly talented woman and thoughtful Christian). We both grew up in the evangelical sub-culture, but I joined the Episcopal Church about 25 years ago in college. That choice brought me into a much wider experience of Christian women in history, women bishops and pastors, and theologians who happen to be women than I ever would have encountered in the evangelical world. And that encouraged me to earn a Ph.D. in religious studies--something I was, sadly, discouraged from doing at Scottsdale Bible Church where I first met Christ as a teenager. My youth pastor actually told me that it was "too bad" that I was a girl--if I was a "guy" I could go to seminary and study theology! Such attitudes still, I regret to say, shape the worldview of many otherwise fine Christians.
As we all begin to break through the decaying barriers of "liberal" vs. "conservative" and "evangelical" vs. "mainline" in our common pursuit of a faithful way of life in Christ, we should be able to mine many sources of thought once exclusive to our "camps." And to share encouraging and empowering stories of shared leadership in Jesus Christ. To friends and leaders like Brian, I hope I bring the riches of a conversation going on in my circles for three or four decades now--a conversation that has created great theological and pastoral energy in the old mainline.
For anyone seeking to read first-class theology by women, you can't go wrong with Elizabeth A. Johnson, "She Who Is: The Mystery of God in Feminist Theological Discourse," a deeply biblical reading of the Christian tradition regarding gender and God; and "God For Us: The Trinity and Christian Life," by Catherine Mowry LaCugna, one of the most rawly intelligent books on the doctrine of the Trinity penned by a contemporary theologian. For a nice start to understanding the role of women in Christian history, the best, basic book is "HerStory: Women in the Christian Tradition" by Barbara J. MacHaffie. Also, check out Ellen Cherry, Barbara Brown Taylor, Nancy Ammerman, Dorothy Bass, Nora Gallagher, and Stephanie Paulsell.
And if you hadn't yet seen it, Brian wrote the afterword to my new book, "The Practicing Congregation: Imagining a New Old Church" and I am currently writing a blurb for his new book, "The Last Word." I am deeply grateful for our theological conversations and know that they bear fruit in both our hearts!
Peace. And many blessings on this Feast of St. John, the third day of Christmas!
Diana Butler Bass
Alexandria, VirginiaBy
, at 3:26 PM
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Yay! Links on my blog to women 8. Links to men 7. One not included (the sniders) although Annette has done the posting so far so it could go either way.
Good Review though. I hope to start a church with my wife someday as the senior pastor and I as the associate pastor. She's just much smarter and more thoughtful than I am. I'm not much more than mediocre without her, in life and probably in ministry too.By
The Accidental Buddhist, at 9:12 AM
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This post has been removed by a blog administrator.
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Jenell, as one famous person to another (I also once said "Hi" to Brian!), I just wanted to say how much I appreciated your review. It was very sparkling and most interesting. ;o)
However, I did wonder if this kind of analysis applies to a book like AGO. I found the book to consist of 2 parts. Part 1 (and by far the most important part) was about an approach to Christian orthodoxy. Part 2 then demonstrates this by showing the different aspects of Brian's belief. I just wonder if it's all too personal and individual to Brian to be approached like this.
What do you think?By
Graham Old, at 12:12 PM
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I keep coming back to this post, maybe because it has become "the poster child" for me of the women's voices I am reading on other blogs.
The first time I heard Brian speak, he was talking about his "Wizard of Oz" analogy of doing church. I can't remember all the words and concepts of the teaching but I do remember the spirit in which he spoke about Dorothy and her style of leadership. He said it was THE leadership style that the church needed for this time and place. I thought at that time, "I could work with that guy." He seemed more open to women and what they had to give then many of the other men who were speaking at the conference that year.
I respect Brian and what he has done in the church. His book highlights for me, he is one who can do the both/and pretty well. At least he thinks about such things. At least he is willing to break outside of the typical evangelical mold and talk about real tensions in the life of faith.
As a spiritual director, I wonder what the broader implications of the comments posted here and other emergent blogs means? I sense a rumbling under the surface of discontent among many of the women who have been called into leadership. What might God be inviting in these places of wilderness? As a female pastor, the experiences mentioned are not new to me. I wish I could say different but it is not so. There is no perfect church or place to serve this side of heaven.
Richard Rohr gave some good advice a month ago when he was in town doing a "Men Matter" conference. When he addressed the women about the same sort of discontent, he wisely exhorted us to "stay on our own journey of transformation." I think it is real easy to get side swiped by turbulent times and what is not happening in the places we serve. I do believe the call is always to follow, to obey, to listen, and to love.
Keep the faith. You are not alone. -
I'm posting anonymously b/c I don't have a blogger account.
I'm going to start by saying the ugly, hard thing: your review made me feel like garbage.
I'm a Catholic woman who grew up about as far outside of conservative, normative Christianity as you can get. I grew up in a church full of women in leadership roles. I grew up with the assumption that I would have a career. I find myself a housewife and a mother of three, in a liberal city, and the only, and I do mean the absolute only support I have ever found for my life is in American evangelical Christianity.
I want to be valued for my embeddedness. I want to known as somebody's wife and somebody's mother. The answer to the problem here isn't to force women, who are working hard doing other things, into the masculine mold of accomplishment. You are asking the wrong questions. You shouldn't be asking where are the women mentors, where is the female intellect - you should be asking why we don't identify men as somebody's husband and somebody's father. You should be asking yourself why you need names to know someone's important.
You balk at "Mother Mary?" There is no higher human title than mother. To disappear into that name, that role, is elevation.By
, at 4:25 AM
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I am surprised you don't comment on the thing which struck me most about AGO - the comments about Mother Mary. Brian made some comments about veneration of Mary as being a worthwhile feminizing influence to an otherwise male-dominated religion.
Personally, I hate this idea. Mother Mary as the Mother and Virgin is the contradiction and example no woman can ever live up to! Also, this creates the "holy family" image which keeps Jesus as a cute baby, and makes the dominant figures Mary and Joseph - not very theologically sound, IMO.
What I would like to see is the reclaiming of the feminine images of God - I hear there are some! Not being a bible scholar I have to take others' word for it, and I never seem to hear these ideas preached from the pulpit, but otherwise reliable sources tell me that God has some feminine images - mother hen, nurturer, etc. We should be hearing more about this! -
Jennell,
I'm just getting into the book, but I think I see where you are coming from. I had a female church history teacher in college that is where she is denominationally because "there was no room" for her in the denomination she grew up in. She opened my eyes to the role of women in the history of the church. I would include her as influential in my understanding of faith for that reason, but to be honest, any other influential woman would be named by title because that is how they relate to me.
I am a married man, and out of respect for my wife, and personal piety issues, I will not enter into a mentoring relationship with a woman. That relationship is too intimate, and in my opinion has no place between members of the opposite sexes. I read women authors occasionally, but lets be realistic prior to the past 40 years, how many women were authors on theological topics/issues. One can hardly fault McLaren for not using women authors in the historical portions of the book.
All in all, however, I appreciated the review. it was good. -
Good McLaren book, good post by you, and good comments. Thanks, everyone. As someone male and white, attempting to deal with gender issues myself (see Are Men Really Human?), I resonate deeply with your concerns. But I also confess that for me (maybe for Brian as well?) it is truly hard to come up with a list of women as long as the list of men he used. Maybe you could do us all a favor and make such a list! That would be wonderful reading / edification for all.
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Drat, that link didn't work. That URL again for Are Men Really Human?....
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I'm a bit worried about getting un-wanted 'rude' posts rather than ones related to relationship management on my site...... perhaps I just try it out - then you can come and post on it :)
Take care
StewartBy
, at 5:55 AM
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greets,
Frank -
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A
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Mother Theresa is woman, but you list her among the men.
By
Gene Chase, at 4:53 PM
Friday, December 17, 2004
Yet again I've initiated a conversation about the meaning of prayer that has not yielded definitive answers. Your wonderful comments sparked some thoughts for me, however. But not Jimmy's, because his suggests that God is a She, and that just rocks my world too much. I just ignore that which overwhelms me.
I said something very fatalistic about my personal future to my therapist and she said, "That's your trauma speaking." Indeed, my trauma has a lot to say. My thoughts about prayer are very much influenced by my attempt to shape a meaningful life narrative. How can I tell the story of God in my life if God seems to have let me down when I needed Him/Her/Whatever most? I'm rearranging my theology, my ideas of prayer, and my interpretations of how God has acted in my life in the past. People do this kind of major rearranging when highly disturbing events happen. So, Ben's wife needs a theology that helps her make sense of having been abused, and still lets her worship and be loved by God. And what shapes your understanding of prayer, both answered and unanswered?
I'm struck by my own situatedness. I can't think 'objectively' about prayer. I can read Scripture, and listen to other saints of today and the past, so I'm not just trapped entirely in my experience. But of course, my experience shapes my thinking about God - seems that one of my life tasks is to make sense of my own existence. Maybe I can contribute some thoughts about prayer that are related to trauma. Perhaps others can speak of healing prayer, answered prayers, enduring prayers.
I also thought about how our conversation about prayer has discussed prayer as a discrete activity, as if sometimes a person is praying, and sometimes she's not. Saints like Madame Guyon and Brother Lawrence speak of prayer as a way of life - practicing the presence of God in every moment of life. There is no 'sitting down to pray' or 'getting up from prayer.' There is only life, every moment of it, lived with an awareness of God's love and presence. Sometimes I sit and speak with God, sometimes I fold my hands, and sometimes I read a prayer book. But these are brief prayerful actions in a life that I wish to be always prayerful.
College Students Say the Darndest Things During Finals Week
on writing a term paper. "It was like my pen was constipated. I couldn't squeeze anything out of it."
on racism. "My friends all say I'm racist, but I'm not. I just avoid certain people based on the color of their skin."
5 Comments:
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She's not a She? Could have fooled me. . . . and only a little surprising that that blows you away. I'd have thought that was an easy one for you, you being who you are (and that's a compliment if it aint clear).
Just one more reason why I'm convinced that God is NOT involved in making tragedies happen. Only a mentally ill mother or father would actually HURT their children intentionally. That's not the God I believe in.
And this is not about doing the right thing or believing the right thing so we get our big yellow ticket into heaven. The announcement that the Kingdom of God is at hand is an announcement of God's presence, presence even in the midst of a world of tragedy. That's good news, but not if the news is "hey, I'm here and I'm the one turning the screws on all of you, and by the way, part of the good news is that I'm a Man so stop saying different." -
thank you for your insight. when you speak from your trauma, you to speak to our trauma.
my childhood was on of tragedy. this too has shaped how I pray. when i pray for bad things not to happen, i get anxious. maybe i get anxious because my experience tells me that this prayer will not always get answered. i've tried to pray that i would be faithful when bad things come (because they will). i've often doubted my own faith--if i were to loose one of my children, i would loose my faith too. that is a real possibility since i feel like i'm hanging on by a thread anyway. to pray that i would remain faithful is perhaps misguided--maybe i should focus on god's faithfulness. -
Jimmy, I was just kidding about the She-God issue. Unsuccessful humor - oh well!
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So, does Jesus suffering and dying on a cross support the idea that God is not in control? Maybe that's a poor example since He's "different?" How about Stephen, then? Surely that wasn't God's intention...or all those people refered to in Hebrews 11:35-38? But they were old testament so maybe they don't count either.
Then there's Job the classic- but we know what really was going on there, so I guess that story can't be used as a model of our precarious lives either...?
When I pray- and I recognize and agree with practicing the presence of God, which I do poorly- I try to pray with an attitude of gratefulness, in and for (vs 20) all things- which I also do poorly. Generally my prayers are, "Please don't let this happen to me, or to them..." or "Please do this to me, or for me, or them..."
I am more often selfish than faithful in prayer. But when I read the Bible honestly I see that God is going to sometimes allow/cause (you choose, most people don't like my opinion) bad things to happen to me and the people I love. But because He is omnipotent, He will take those things and turn them into good- not some future good in heaven that I don't really give a crap about at the moment, but a good that is for me, in my life now. Of course I don't usually appreciate what He's doing, don't usually understand it, and usually think I could do a better job. But(everybody breathe a sigh of relief) I'm not God.
Maybe I haven't had enough tragedy in my life to allow me the proper perspective. I'm not Job- haven't lost my property, servants, children. My health has been iffy at times, I had open heart surgery when I was 32 for a congenital heart defect, but I think that was more stressful on my wife than myself. I've lost both my parents- my mom to a fairly normal process of old age at 84, my dad not quite as normal- he basically starved himself to death after my mom died. But it doesn't do me any good to compare myself to someone else 'cause God is only dealing with me as me.
And I know there are probably as many different ideas about the who & how & why of God as there are individuals. It is not my intention to offend or hurt anyone, and I hope I don't do so. But I think I would be negligent to not express what I think is true. Isn't all of this part of the gospel? It is to me. -
Found a lot of useful info on your site about term paper - thank you. Haven't finished reading it yet but have bookmarked it so I don't lose it. I've just started a term paper blog myself if you'd like to stop by
Thursday, December 16, 2004
If you ask God to save your children, and He doesn't, what can you ever pray for again? I had lunch yesterday with Curtiss DeYoung, a college mentor who now teaches in my department. He's a former pastor, commty organizer, and now professor of reconciliation studies. We talked about why we pray, what we expect from prayer, and what we've seen happen as a result of prayer. I came away with some clarifying of my muddled ideas. I pray because I'm compelled to pray. I want to speak with God, spend time with God, express myself to God, and be changed by God. My expectations in terms of worldly results, however, are pretty low. I think God may or may not change my external circumstances, and most of the time doesn't. I think God transforms my heart and psyche, but in His own time and way that I sometimes can't correctly perceive.
I've seen circumstances change after having prayed, but the causality is never perfectly clear. Maybe it would have happened anyway, maybe it was luck, maybe the prayer helped me focus more and accomplish something... The clearest results of prayer that I've seen are in my inner life. I've experienced forgiveness, healing, release of bitterness, and relaxation/peace - things I know I can't achieve on my own. I think part of this is supernatural intervention, and part is Christ within. I think Christ lives within us and is able to heal and change, but we need to relax and release ourselves to change beyond our control. Prayer helps us do that.
I'm still accepting something I've learned over the last few years. I think Christians and nonChristians are equally at the whim of a cruel universe, despite their faith. Christians die, suffer, starve, and are oppressed everyday all over the world, but we usually don't take their lives into consideration when we make theology. Jesus healed a few people, but it often served some other purpose than just the healing. And even those people eventually died. We all will die, some way and somehow, and it seems to me that many of our prayers are about escaping that fact. If we prayed for acceptance of pain and death, instead, maybe our remaining days of life could be transformed.
I desperately wish that by being a good Christian, I could avoid some bad circumstances in life. I don't believe that is possible anymore. I am increasingly sensitive about people saying to me, "Prayer is powerful!" "Have faith that God is in control!" If God's hands are on the reins of this world, then He's either evil or powerless -- just open your eyes and see what horrendous things are happening every day. And it's cruel to suggest to me that my lack of religious rituals led to the demise of my family. (I know - no one's actually suggesting that, but it's the logical endpoint of such statements. Pray, get results. Don't pray, don't get results. Got bad results? Probably didn't pray).
I pray to know God, know myself, and to receive whatever God has for me. Expect little, receive much.
8 Comments:
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I was thinking pretty much the same thing the other day. Of course, my thoughts ended up with a sci fi twist...
http://truthmakefret.blogspot.com/2004/12/sci-fi-parable-about-prayer.htmlI once heard something that helped me clarify the purpose of prayer. It came from Dawson's Creek, of all places...
'What makes you think that just by praying you can change God?'
'Oh child, you've got it all backwards! Prayer doesn't change God, it changes me.' -
I think Dawson's Creek actually stole that from "Shadowlands" with Debra Winger and Anthony Hopkins, about CS Lewis. I know what you mean, though, Jenell. I developed the attitude that I'm much happier with lower expectations. I don't know if that's a defeatist attidtude, but I'm much more content and that's what I care about. i don't think my life has suffered much as a result either. And as I prayed last Tuesday, whether we see the results of our prayer in front of us or not, we still feel this pull, the invisible string, towards this God that we continue to look to for something...
My prayers are with you.By
Solomon's Girl, at 11:28 AM
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I hardly ever pray, I think because I'm not sure why I should. I don't mean that to sound cynical--it really is my question. But you've got me thinking that it's a process issue. I need to pray out of faithfulness, with the idea that it's a practice that keeps me turning to God and that just that act of turning is enough. What happens from there is anyone's guess. carla
By
, at 11:47 AM
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You know, Carla, I've prayed more this week than I can remember, and its because I begina dn end each day lighting a candle. It's amazing how much that helps me focus.
"God is a comedian playing to an audience too afraid to laugh."
- Voltaire (1694-1778)
What does anybody think of that in light of prayer?By
Solomon's Girl, at 11:55 AM
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Jenell, I've had the same belief about prayer for at least a decade. I believe there is value in conversing with God as a partner to open our hearts consciously to the deepest fears, longings, hopes, etc. I find it somewhat of a haughty act to actually ask for anything beyond being changed as a person. I don't know what it means in terms of God's interaction in the world. I do believe God is a communicator and can insert herself in the world by affecting our hearts and minds to be different people. But I rather doubt she stops or starts a deer across the road to either save or kill an innocent person. I wonder if I can let go of the need to believe that God never acts in the world supernaturally?
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This conversation almost sounds like there's no point in praying, or believing, in God. Since God doesn't really get involved in the world, do whatever you like and hope you wind up in heaven? I don't really think you all believe that, at least I hope not.
I am convinced God is personally, intimately involved in every aspect of my life, and every other life- I cannot seperate myself from Him in any way. I amsometimes am hesitant to respond here- I know I can come across as harsh, though I never intend to. I've been through some things in my life that made me wonder why God bothered to get out of bed that morning. But my wife has been through things that make me nauseous if I think about them hard. And she is convinced that God knew exactly what He was doing when He let her be abused as an innocent child. I take a lot from her faith- God knows what He is doing, He makes no mistakes in my life. I don't understand Him, but I will take Job's words- "Though He slay me, I will hope in Him." -
Ben, I guess part of what's in this conversation are some differences in what we think it means to live as a Christian. I am not a Christian so I can end up in heaven. The life I live here does matter and in many ways, I think it's more important than where my eternal soul ends up. So whether I understand how and why God acts in the world, I want to live a life that is centered on the things of God because I believe that is most likely the way God acts in the world--through us.
I'm sorry to hear about your wife's history of abuse. I have dear friends who have lived through that and I don't know how anyone holds onto God in the face of that kind of pain. At the same time, I am always nervous when I hear people use the language of God "letting" abuse happen because, while I believe God can do anything, I can't imagine that God operates in such a way that God would stand by while a child is damaged just to make some bigger point later on--just like I don't believe God "let" Jenell's sons die so we would all learn some valuable lesson. I do, however, believe that God can and does bring good out of even the most horrific acts of humanity. For me, that belief is what keeps me on the side of faith. carlaBy
, at 11:20 PM
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I love your second paragraph, Jenell.
The only prayer that I know with total certainty works is one I learned in AA, before I became a Christian -- "Thy Will, not mine, be done." The follow-up was to pray for acceptance of His will. That seems to work when nothing else does.
I do pray for other people all the time. I pray the way my third wife, who came out of AG, taught me to pray. I still board aircraft by making a sign of the cross on the exterior fuselage and "claiming this aircraft, its passengers and crew in the name of Jesus Christ." I don't know what I believe about that, but I do it with enthusiasm.
Saturday, December 11, 2004
Opal last had a bath on September 12, 2003. She got another one this morning. I love the smell of wet cat - the oils on their skin. Now she smells like tea tree oil shampoo. Ruby hasn't had a bath since well before September 2003, but she knows how to clean herself well.
5 Comments:
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Gee.... I've been unaware that anyone dared to give their cat a bath! Maybe we need to chat about this. Boots has never had one...and I have a difficult time imagining it...without a doubt she wouldn't come near me for at least a week! laura s.
By
, at 6:08 PM
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I use these special cat wet-wipes on Aidan & Brigit once in a while, but I value my arms & hands too much to actually dare bathing them in water. Eek!
- Rachel L.By
, at 1:46 PM
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we pretty much just wash our cats before my brother-in-law comes over--he's wildly allergic.
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never. The only time our cats have been in the water is when they have lurked a little too close to the tub to investigate the bubbles in my bathwater. Carla
By
, at 4:12 PM
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Its difficult to make a blog interesting. Your a master! I wonder if you will keep the good job. I will return to see :-))
Jeff - Nail Fungus acrylic nail fungus
Thursday, December 09, 2004
The next article in this issue of American Anthropologist is "Restaging the Will to Believe: Religious Pluralism, Anti-Syncretism, and the Problem of Belief." Thomas Kirsch uses his fieldwork from Zambia to redefine "belief." I think it has interesting implications for Christians.
Kirsch says it's a problem to define belief as "a condition of enduring internalized convictions relating to a noncontradictory set of religious propositions." Missionaries in Zambia tend to see believers as 'weak' or 'unbelievers' or 'syncretic' when their mental constructs about the nature of God shift. Kirsch observed Zambian Christians (Gwembe Valley) as they sought healing for various ailments.
One Christian pastor, in his free time, visited and participated in other forms of Christianity, herbalism, and nonChristian spiritists. Kirsch found this troubling because he expected a true believer to adhere to only one set of beliefs. Instead, he found this pastor and others practicing multiple religions in attempts to be healed. They also claimed to truly believe whichever practice they were part of at the moment. If a healing practice worked, then God was praised, and wonder was expressed that God (the Christian God) would work through herbalists or spiritists. Devotion to Jehovah God seemed sort of constant, but Christians had numerous religious options 'up their sleeves' to be used in a pinch.
There are numerous ways to interpret the practices in the Gwembe Valley, but this is what Kirsch says. He says that the spirit world, in Zambia, is perceived to be very complex and shifting. As a result, belief practices correspond with the nature of the spiritual world. In the Christian West, God is usually perceived as stable and unchanging, and so such stability is expected of God's followers.
Kirsch concludes that "belief" does not need to be a stable noun, with religious adherents considered faulty for changing what they once said they believed. Instead, people pursue religious practices that cyclically regenerate a condition of "believing." Belief and action, or religion and practice, are one and the same. We don't have to craft a set of unchanging ideas and then act upon them. We just live life, and belief and action are wrapped up together in living.
While I'm not so sure about Chrisitans wholeheartedly practicing religious pluralism, I recognize that we often do it anyway. When seeking healing, we will pray, use the Bible, develop ascetic practices, go to faith healers, trust medicine, trust alternative medicine, and the like - fully giving our hope and belief to each practice while we are in the midst of it. I also see that our practices and notions of belief are closely tied to our preconceived ideas of what the spiritual world is like. It inspires me to see Christianity as a whole way of life in which action and belief are integrated - Buddhism is like that, and so was Old Testament Judaism. We've got to look pre-Greek or non-western to escape the classical Greek dualism of mind and body, spirit and flesh, belief and action.
2 Comments:
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Interesting stuff. I am not an anthropologist but this has huge implications for our missiology. This seems to be very much in keeping with some of the concepts Charles Kraft laid out in "Christianity in Culture".
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Wednesday, December 08, 2004
First off, thanks to those who wrote to Zack. It seems that we can agree that somethingawful.com is a stupid website. It's hard to decided whether to just ignore something bad, or to intervene. Sometimes intervention just fuels the flames and gives a bad thing more attention. In this case, I thought it was worth doing something, especially because the website calls for a $9.99 subscription fee. By speaking up, but not subscribing, we've spoken our minds without feeding the organization.
My questioning of my choice of profession comes from this month's American Anthropologist, the flagship journal for my discipline. In it is an article about blogging! It's titled "The Vulgar Spirit of Blogging": On Language, Culture, and Power in Persian Weblogestan." It's an ethnographic study of Persian language blogs, focusing on a blog argument among Iranian bloggers about whether or not blogging is vulgar (encourages poor language, poor discourse, dragging down the culture, etc.). This is sort of interesting, I suppose, but this is what drives me batty about the academy - our insistence on using esoteric language in order to keep ourselves in, and the uneducated out. The boundary maintenance that occurs through the use of inaccessible language is ridiculous.
On blogs...
"The result (of this Iranian debate) is a clash that may lead to a refining of boundaries between the genres as well as the crystallization of competing genres within blogging that are characterized by different outer and inner orientations and are influenced in various ways by the primary and secondary genres of speech that have been interacting and fusing on the Internet. The generic clash can also be seen as one dimension of a struggle for the creation of hegemonies and counterhegemonies."
In conclusion, "The cycle of signification and ironic inversion never ends in this deep play of metaphors adn conflicts, in which vulgarity, censorship, and dominance constantly define each other and conjure up their own mirror images."
I'm an anthropologist and a blogger, and I can hardly make sense of this - and who else in the world would even care? The author's point is that blogging represents a new form of speech, and the speech elite (professors, publishers, editors) are sometimes threatened by blogging, so they refer to it as vulgar, messy, or unsophisticated. They're just trying to hold on to their power.
Why can't we talk about ideas in ways that lots of people can understand? You can call me vulgar, but I'd prefer 'populist.'
1 Comments:
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Jenell, you seem to have forgotten my most recent paper at the 2004 NAEGSA convention, held recently at the Days Inn in Hattiesburg:
"Inversion and its Diverse Vulgarities: Mapping the Margins of Counter-Hegemonic Blogging"
Or were you at the panel on "Burial Practices among North American Transsexual Pentecostals"?
I hate that they put that one on at the same time as mine.
Monday, December 06, 2004
Friends, will you please act on this terrible knowledge? This strange website, www.somethingawful.com, has an article mocking dead baby websites. It also links to photos of one woman's dead twins. The guy took down the actual photograph after I e-mailed him this morning.
Bereaved mothers sometimes make memorial websites with music, kitchy poems, and photographs. It's an important step in the grieving process for these people. The websites are mostly for friends, family, and other bereaved moms, and obviously shouldn't be exploited and mocked.
Promise me you'll only look at www.somethingawful.com if you're willing to e-mail Zack and tell him what you think.
zackparsons@somethingawful.com
This is the e-mail I sent him.
Zack,
Please consider removing your dead baby article. I'm part of an on-line group that supports women who have lost twins, triplets, or more (and I am one of these women). The woman whose babies you have mocked is extremely upset, and the entire group thinks your article is evil and wrong. Please have some basic human compassion toward grieving parents, and remove what you have written. It is not funny at all.
Jenell Paris
He might not be a bad person - maybe just an immature asshole making a poor judgment about humor. If so, our e-mails might make a difference.
Thanks for considering it.
5 Comments:
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I have sent the requested email. Let's hope...
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Jenell,
I likewise sent an email. Dude, I am a big fan of freedom of speech and the kooky, but there also has to be a modicum of respect and compassion that we give to each other. When I read your entry and then went to the site I thought of that Wiccan line of
"no harm to others," or something like that. It is sad to think of how "ironic" and cynical we can get (and maybe our society) while we forget the simplicity of compassion and empathy. -
I sent one too. carla
By
, at 9:46 PM
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here's what i sent him ...
i am a mom who has lost a baby. i am unable to look at your website for fear of it bringing up awful memories which would hurt so much. please, use compassion on us who have lost children and remove this article from your website. you have no idea how deeply this has affected some people, nor will you ever know the
devastation it has caused.
lisa b.
i couldn't even look at what was on the website, but by your description, i had a plain idea. the anger that boils in me over this guys ignorance is unGodly and i hope i will not overreact to this. i am not one who is prone to a gurgling pot of anger and yet knowing that this person has taken the gift of life and the gift of death and then splashed it about as though it were trash, truly makes me ill. whew - ok i said it. the anger is leaving ...
goddnight jenell and thanks for alerting me to this. -
I've seen that site before, and they thrive on that kind of low-brow, offensive, tasteless humour. I wouldn't recommend becoming a regular of that site unless you like insulting fat people or making fun of the mentally retarded.
By
Brother James, at 12:23 PM
Friday, December 03, 2004
Sorry to maintain so much suspence - I had spinach salad, grilled cheese, and a glass of ice milk for lunch on wednesday. Wes, there was no Asian line. There were just piles of carbs, pressed meats, and cheese at every turn.
Today I stayed home. I'm reading alot and not writing very much, and feel that enjoying myself so much must be wrong for a work day. I'm reading Nancy Mairs' Plaintext and another one about finding one's voice as a writer. She is fabulous, even though I disagree with her French feminist theories. The one I most appreciated this morning is an essay about "The Literature of Personal Disaster." She writes about her life - her marriage, affair, childraising, mental illness, and increasingly debilitating multiple sclerosis. As a result of her writing successes, she is frequently asked to review books about personal disaster. She says many of these books are very bad. She suspects that editors believe that the subject matter (schizophrenia, suicide, whatever) is so urgent that the information must be published, even if the prose is bad. Mairs disagrees, and ponders the usefulness of writing about one's own personal disasters.
Who wants to read about someone else's personal disaster? To feel better that such a bad thing hasn't happened to oneself? For voyeurism? Mairs says there's nothing special about suffering - bad things happen to everyone from time to time, and there's nothing inherently redemptive about reading the detail of someone else's life. The story has to go somewhere, to a place worth taking a reader to. When a person learns from suffering, is transformed, learns to live with pain, or gains interesting insights into reality, then this is worth writing and reading. She says we read about other peoples' personal disasters to know that we are not alone in our own, and that there is still life in the midst of, and on the other side of, tragedy.
1 Comments:
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The Theology of personal disaster - interesting. Unfortunately, we
probably focus to much on ourselves than others.
For instance, I am being a bachelor for 3 weeks. My wife is in Michigan
waiting for entrance to a hospital. The hospital is full and she is just
waiting, and I AM WAITING. I want to be with her but can't! I am just
Waiting. And it is Advent, a time of waiting.
This week I will be doing a special memorial service for FAMILIES who
have lost babies this year. I may pass out your website. Many will
identify with you. Many are still grieving, but is that not all of our
stories: the dream delayed, something lost and found, the bad memory
that will not die, the wrong turn that changed our life, BUT THEN Rom.
8:28 --God's Way Not Ours and it turned out for the best after all.
(P.S.) You make me think Jenell and I am appreciative. That is your
special gift to us this Advent season.
Waiting in TN. Dan
And where is the recliner in the picture?By
Dan Phillips, at 5:27 PM
Wednesday, December 01, 2004
I rearranged my office - if I had a digital camera here, I'd show it to you. I brought in a recliner so I can read comfortably and maybe take naps once in awhile. I like it very much.
I think my last posting was too despairing. I was struck by how damn hard it is to be a Christian, and how much more hard it is to not be one. Life is just hard, no matter how you try to live it. In the best place, the Christian way is easy and the burden is light, but I find it hard work to get to that place. Hard work to even just wait for grace. I'm not in depression or despair, however. Such hard thoughts are just generally on my mind. If you're around me in person, you know that I'm quite socially functional now, but I'm still processing alot in writing.
Question for the day: I'm eating at the school cafeteria today (only $3.75). What's the best and worst thing from your college cafeteria? I'll let you know later what I find there today.
7 Comments:
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At Bethel always eat whatever is in the Asian line (Wing's Line). You're pretty much safe there.
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best thing in the baylor caf was the mexican food. sure it was all aramark, pero los manos que concinaron fue mexicanos! (the hands that made it were mexican)
the worse was the salad bar. ugh. always limp, and heavy on the carb-filled toppings. -
The best? The sandwiches -- somehow, they do tuna right here at PCC.
The worst? The pizza -- several napkins must be applied to absorb even half the grease. -
the best and worst all in one morning...
terrific pancakes
horrible, cold, sugary syrup
fortunately, by the time I left I was able to fill out enough student survey/comment cards to pursuade the food-powers-that-be to serve the syrup warm, which made a significant impact. It also taught me that one person can make a difference.
katieBy
, at 10:29 AM
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oooh. Asbury College had a Spicy Jambalaya that was almost toxic.
But once in a while they had grilled chicken that was palateable. -
The best thing to eat at Willamette University was the Stray Cat Scramble -- just your basic breakfast scramble -- from the Cat Cavern. The worst thing I ever saw there was Taco Salad Soup -- yes, it had started as tacos, become taco salad, and finally completed its long journey to taco salad soup. Never eat in Goudy Commons on Sunday night.
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The worst food at Carleton was something called "Calico Skillet." I never figured out what was in it. Perhaps a mixture of whatever vegetarian leftovers were sitting in the big industrial fridge at the end of the week?
- Rachel L.By
, at 1:46 PM
16 Comments:
And indeed, congratulations!
transitus
By
Anonymous, at 6:02 PM
oh, this is happy, happy news!!!!
congratulations.
By
jen lemen, at 11:19 PM
congradulations!
By
DLW, at 11:26 PM
Yeah, good news about the Jolly Rancher...
Not so jolly now, huh? ;)
By
dave p, at 11:55 PM
Yeah baby!
By
jay v., at 12:13 AM
Ya know, I almost asked if that was the case...congrats! What a way to kick off the year- not sure if I mean the pregnancy or the puking, though.
By
Stacey, at 3:03 AM
Jenell,
When I read your previous blog about your fear of throwing up, I wondered if you were pregnant. I am so thrilled I can't even tell you. I want to hop on a plane to MN and give you a big hug and rub your back while you puke in the toilet! Well, maybe just the hug part :), but seriously, my prayers and thoughts and love are with you and the precious life inside.
love,
Rachel
By
Danny Stratford!, at 11:42 AM
Oh how wonderful indeed! Many blessings to you and the child who now grows within. Liz
By
latinaliz, at 1:54 AM
woo hoo! congratulations!
By
bobbie, at 7:20 AM
I am so excited for you. Will keep the little one in our prayers.
By
Dan Phillips, at 9:29 AM
Wow- congrats, and hurrah! Anj
By
Anonymous, at 10:20 PM
Cool! That's great news! Congratulations! I'll keep you in my prayers.
Lynn Gazis-Sax
By
Anonymous, at 10:40 PM
Congratulations! Praying for you both!
By
Ellen, at 9:54 PM
Yay!
By
Tim, at 6:02 PM
Cheers and congrats and prayers from the departures lounge at Heathrow... I am so happy for you!
Hugo
By
Anonymous, at 8:06 AM
what beautiful news!
-kate nordbye
By
Kate, at 10:33 PM
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